WELL Network: Decentralized Healthcare Initiative

WELL Network: Decentralized Healthcare Initiative



today I'm joined by Ildefonso Leonov who's the founder and CEO of well network they're online at join well dot-com in the middle of an ICO and really working in an area that I've been following for a while which is telemedicine and you know Eldar especially here in the US we have such problems in general with the healthcare system a lot of it has to do with how healthcare is paid for there's really no shortage of problems to discuss but I'm curious to start with you sort of what's the key problem that you're looking to solve so we're solving we call ourselves Airbnb of healthcare and just like Airbnb solved the problem of trust where you entrust a stranger with the keys to your house healthcare you and Trust keys to your health to your sometimes life and death so the key problem we're trying to solve is basically medical errors misdiagnosis not non-treatment and even deaths caused by you know healthcare and we solve it with blockchain to ensure trust to scale trust which blockchain is great for and then another problem we solve is the issue of payment friction which I actually encountered as healthcare provider of three years and so blockchain for us is a solution that we're you know solving our own you know our own problems as a healthcare provider and problems of other doctors other health care providers so from the end-user perspective we can then after talk about maybe from the service provider perspective or even from the insurance company to the extent you'll work with insurance companies if everything goes to plan what would the experience be for the end user the consumer of healthcare that would be available to them so it would depend on country that they're in obviously because healthcare is geography specific in you know globally it may involve more things like medical tourism so basically when a person wants to self pay for something at the moment and once you get the best possible care at the best possible price we provide that and whether it's medical tourism or even you know second opinion or care in the United States yeah and if someone is in the United States to start with right now the sort of typical relationship is usually through an employer you have health insurance there's typically some kind of restricted limited list of providers that you are able to go to if you want full coverage or as close to full coverage sort of as possible there is a mechanism through which you might pay a copay or coinsurance and then the provider will bill the insurance and then there's sort of a transaction that takes place in that way what's the opportunity of introducing blockchain into this whatwhat is that allow to happen that would otherwise not be possible so the main the main problem it solves is the payment friction so there is a lot of mistrust and in healthcare where insurance company may approve a visit for example and you happily go and you get thirty visits with the physical therapists at a clinic and it was pre-approved everything is great they approved it everyone is happy and then when you're done with thirty visits suddenly they only approved twenty so now it's a game of musical chairs between the physical therapy clinic and the patient and you can't really do anything you can't sue insurance you can't fight it and so what happens is that either a patient gets screwed or in this case a clinic gets screwed and so ultimately blockchain is perfect for removing middlemen which insurance companies are really that they're nothing but tape are shufflers right there's definitely underwriting but that's really at the kind of the top level you know of insurance catastrophic insurance insurance for like really high levels of care you know like things like cancer and things like that which are available and you can get at significantly lower cost and there is even gap insurance that is available you know as an alternative to HMO and PPO already so that would be kind of the format that we would provide to people so one of the groups I guess I would say one of the communities in the United States anyway that really has limited access to health care services are all sorts of different underprivileged groups people who don't have a job or who have a job but it's not one that provides insurance or individuals who are self-employed or sort of precariously employed and may not be able to afford private market insurance for themselves how can the project you're working on here help to increase access for those individuals so I'll give you an example of my girlfriend who is in fashion industry and she you know as you know there's a lot of change in fashion industry she works for zsa and so she has insurance right now she pays a lot of money for it she needed an MRI of her knee and she went with her insurance provider and they didn't really cover it they provided a 10% discount so $2,400 MRI would have cost her twenty two hundred dollars in our system of our providers which we negotiate just like an insurance company can she was able to get an MRI for $400 where blockchain comes in is that we can actually save additional money and headache and and insure these providers that they will get paid for sure because even with insurance companies they negotiate those extreme rates right like let's say her MRI was covered then most likely insurance would have paid $400 to that provider but that provider may have had to spend a year trying to collect from that insurance company or in the end not even cover it and then they would have to basically send that patient to a collection agency because as a patient you sign a waiver saying if insurance doesn't cover you are responsible for the payment and that's where blockchain is perfect with smart contracts and you know ability to basically ensure that the payment happens and it's great for everyone except for the middleman I'm interested in the telemedicine angle I mean this is something that even I think my primary care provider here in Boston even offers for certain types of visits certain types of sort of common complaints I'm already able to sort of videoconference with I think it's a nurse practitioner or not a doctor rather than going in and I think it's usually a benefit to them because it keeps the office sort of clearer it's a benefit to me because I pay either no or a lower copay although I'd have to look into it I haven't done it yet but bigger picture I mean telemedicine has huge potential right now although there are still some caveats to that can you talk about the telemedicine angle well I'll expand it to even higher basically what you want to do is a provider and as a patient is you want to match the problem with the solution so you solve a $20 problem with the $20 solution and $2,000 problem with the $2000 solution unfortunately because healthcare is so inefficient it what ends up happening is that sometimes $20 problem is solved with $2000 solution and vice versa and the $2000 problem is sold with $20 sorry a lot of tubes but so basically what telemedicine is is just one of the solutions to like you said make air more efficient as far as the doctor it doesn't really provide a whole lot of benefit for that particular doctor because if he spends you know 10 minutes with you he would spend the same 10 minutes with you in the office really it's a convenience for the patient and so what you want sure is that you have even a layer below it we call it secure messaging we're with AI and ability to basically answer questions you can you know sometimes solve let's say $2.00 problem with the $2.00 solution and so telemedicine to me is not just the video call you make with the doctor telemedicine to me is you know let's call it telemedicine telehealth whatever you want to call it it's basically virtualization of care where you know you basically have solutions that are virtual to apply to to you know to you to care to stay ahead of the disease in case of IOT so you know we're talking to large Asian publicly traded company about a partnership where you could have you know IOT devices to basically measure you know things like metabolism your heart rate variability and things like that and for people who don't know IOT is Internet of Things and that's right one of the new sort of directions that that a lot of these devices are going so you were you were mentioning the potential for remote reading of blood pressure what other sort of applications would there be so you can measure metabolism you can you know like with GMA you can give your you know saliva test and you know have DNA measure to for example ensure that you do the proper diet or you watch out for certain things like you know let's say you are african-american male that's older than 40 years you have a high risk of you know certain cancers or you know whatever whatever group you are with like DNA testing for example you can turn an even higher probabilities of certain things based on your DNA and so then you adjust your behavior arm offline to make sure you use the head of potential problems is there a difference in the sort of use case for what you're doing depending on the country people are in as a result of just the drastically different health systems that people have now in other words we've been studying of course the American system for a long time we are now learning more our audiences about the Singapore healthcare system which is very different to what they have in the United Kingdom for example so are the applications and use cases for what well network is doing very different from country to country so overall you want to start kind of with the end in mind and then you you build a solution right so the the main problem we're solving is we're basically empowering people so for the people by the people with the help of blockchains so in countries like Singapore or Hong Kong where or even Canada where care is kind of like you be you being taken care of by the government but there's there are times when you want that second opinion for a very large problem or you don't want to wait for a year for a procedure and you have the money and you want to spend it efficiently and with the best possible care so that's the solution there and again with providing the substrate of virtual care let's call it you can basically determine what your solution is and then and then obtain it on our platform so in countries where working through insurance is the status quo like the United States is there a plan to work with insurance companies directly yes so and that's a long-term plan initially the plan would be to work with self-insured employers and provide them gap care and now with Trump you know coming down on Obamacare there's definitely and there's actually gap in in care when you don't sign up on time you can't get HMO PPO for several months sometimes so this high deductible plan that we're talking about we're you covered for catastrophic but then you go and you get when you do need it you get extremely good prices that use or your employer pays for right and it's great for companies with you know Millennials or other kind of population types that need that type of care and benefit from it the most to decrease their cost of health care from the perspective of the health insurance company what's their incentive to work with you so we've had we've been you know talking speaking at several conferences and we have insurance companies come to us the most interesting aspect for insurance companies is basically so you have Kaiser in the way they solve it the way they solve that problem $20 problem $20 solution mm is they own the whole value chain but it's a very you know you can only do so much right it's health care is a gigantic industry so Kaiser is you know a very geographically focused and then they own the entire value chain Oscar is trying to do the same thing and they're spending a lot of money but what they're actually getting is they get a huge population of Hispanics speaking which even though they have the technology they're trying to do but because of their population sample they're basically getting people still wanting to come to the office and you know we are and really expensive kind of per patient expense so and as part of that just to make sure I understand the example part of that is that they don't feel that short of going in they're necessarily going to get someone who understands them possibly because of a language issue that also educationally they just don't know about their options right so yeah I'm not I'm not trying to be a racist I'm just you know it's just it's just realities of life right like when people don't know their options like you said they they just they instead of being they they go or they end up any you know going to you are because they don't know better yeah I think probably it would even apply I mean I think it would apply to any underserved or immigrant community I mean here in Massachusetts and particularly familiar partially because of my family working in mental health that immigrants from spanish-speaking countries definitely fall into that other parts of the country could be other populations yeah absolutely and and so for insurance company is what makes it interesting working with us is that essentially they can get Kaiser like you know ability to control the value chain without actually owning it so think of it as like you know there's Apple that controls everything right they build the hardware they build the software and then there's Android where they provide the platform that people can use but they get a similar experience and so that's kind of you know from that perspective that's what we would strive to do for insurance companies is give them Kaiser alike capability to match the cost with a solution and control with smart contracts and frictionless payment and also it basically would by outsourcing trust to you know a third-party blockchain in this case they can basically ensure that their providers will know and will be comfortable working with that particular insurance because that's a huge problem for insurance companies is that people don't want to work with them because they you know they they want to be paid and they you know sometimes these small insurance companies that's how they manage cost yeah let's talk about the token and the ico a little bit what will the token do so the token is the utility token you basically will be able to pay for services some you know subscription services you know as far as like you know the IOT things ability to manage your care you'll be able to store your data on our blockchain and then the really big problem we're solving is cross-border payments so for example let's say a Korean Serge plastic surgeon and the Chinese lady that's trying to get a plastic surgery if it's over ten thousand dollar surgery with the new laws in China well you can't really even bring more than ten thousand dollars in cash and then making a cashless is a is a very clunky transaction out of China for example where you can't you know you can't really take money out but but with well tokens you can frictionlessly you know convert your your fee ad into well tokens and then a doctor converts it back some of it backs he keeps some of it it also has potential tax saving implications for the Korean plastic surgeon as well what's the status of the ICO right now we're in presale and where people learn more about them join well dot IO or join welcome which redirects to join wall that il either one and what's the timeline are there multiple phases in terms of the deployment how much are you looking to raise so we're raising twenty eight million dollars hard cap is our our hard cap is twenty eight million dollars and we exceeded our soft cap of three million we're in public presale right now and IC o—- starts April 16th so it's coming up and Anne's May fifteenth do you think that generally speaking one of the biggest problems that the blockchain this is more general now that blockchain can provide in areas like medicine is that there's a lot of sort of lack of transparency these are opaque transactions for a lot of people where a lot of the participants don't have nearly as much information as others I mean it seems to me that that's a big opportunity here right absolutely transparency and pricing I mean even the example of my girlfriend that's just crazy that in in the same city you can basically get yeah you know it's 80% difference in price it's just insane so basically the same thing it's a machine that does the MRI there's no difference in quality there so yeah absolutely so blockchain will do will do all of that yeah fascinating we've been speaking with ildefonso Liana he's the founder and CEO of well network you can learn more using the link in the video description we'll be following this closely and I really appreciate you talking to me about it today thank you David great talking to you

10 thoughts on “WELL Network: Decentralized Healthcare Initiative”

  1. Healthcare is too complex for any simple solution. Adding buzzwords like telemedicine and crypto do not solve the big picture. While this guest may have something for international or medical tourism payment, there is no need to peg crypto currency to US healthcare delivery.

  2. Kathaline Hansen

    Or those on government medicine who DO KNOW but can't afford functional medicine. Or the specialists that actually know what they are doing because they are out of state.

  3. Kathaline Hansen

    Are you aware of this organization. He is trying at include functional medicine in insurance coverage.

    [The kNewsletter] Join us LIVE in Ashland this Monday + The kNews is Back…
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    http://functionalforum.com/interconnected-medicine-2018

  4. 21 minutes and I still don't know what they are actually using blockchain to accomplish, and how they are going to accomplish it.
    According to thier whitepaper, it's another cross border payment system, which there a many already. Do they have a github page? I don't see a link to one on the website. Do they even have any code yet? Is this ICO legal for US residents to participate in?

  5. I should have brought my buzzword bingo card. This guy had no idea what he was talking about beyond making sure to get the correct buzzwords into the conversation.

  6. The more the medical payments system is balkanized, the more expensive and restrictive it becomes. This is a senseless prescription in comparison to the medicare for all systems being proposed.

  7. Stressy Porkrind

    So I have the same problem I pay $1,000 a month for insurance but I pay it for nothing because I can't use it I couldn't even pay my part of the co-pay so I pay $1,000 a month because the government tells me I have to thanks to Oblama . In the year 1947 I could forgive voice to lip synchronization but not now in this super tech world we live in.

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